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If You Continue In A Sinful Corrupt Nature After You Think You’re Saved, Were You Really Saved?

Obviously, we may still sin after we are saved.  “If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us”(1 Jn 1:10).  Therefore if we take the following scripture word for word, we may think that we are not saved if we commit one sin.  That’s is a false belief.  God looks at our heart.  Has the heart changed, longing to please God, turn from sin, and live a godly life?  Godliness begins in the heart.  Trying, in and of ourselves to refrain from every single sin, whether of commission or omission, would turn our faith into a works based system.  This would lead to absolute failure.  So the following verse is telling us that, if our heart has not changed at all, we merely said the words with the mouth and did not let God into the heart as Lord.

1 Jn 3:6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Am I Not Unsaved Every Time I Sin? Do I Need Born Again And Again And Again Every Time I Sin?

First of all, we know that salvation is equivalent with eternal life.  How do we get eternal life?

Jn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Okay, then how do we know Him?

1Jn 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4 The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:

Well what is the most important commandment?

Mat 22:37 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.

It says all the law is under this commandment.  It is a heart thing.  God knows the heart.  We must love Him first and then others. That’s how we know we are in him.  If we seek His face all else falls into place.  Our relationship with Jesus is often symbolized as a bride and bridegroom.

REV 19:7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.

Jesus is the like the spouse who is “in it for life” no matter what.  He said  “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” Because He loves us so much he came to die for us (Jn 3:16).  No power of sin can separate us from his Love:

Rom  8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If a husband truly loves his wife and she does something to anger him, the husband may be displeased but should not walk out the door and divorce her.  You can’t sin your way out of this relationship. But the Holy Spirit will convict us, because God said “I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts” (Heb 8:10). And Jesus encouraged us to always pray for forgiveness when He taught us how to pray as follows: “Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.” (Mat 6:12).  If we fall, will a father kick us when we’re down.  In the same way, will our “Abba Father” kick us when we’re down.  NO!!  If we seek Him, He will lift us back up.  John tells us, “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 Jn 1:9).  Spouses get upset with each other sometimes but feel bad afterwards (conviction).  They then say “I’m sorry” (repentance) and are back in good terms.  But they should not divorce over it. In a personal relationship four things are important for the spouse to achieve:  Constant communication, knowing what pleases your partner (their will), intimacy, and constant praise rather than criticism and blame shifting.  Our relationship with God is similar.  We should “Pray without ceasing” (I Thes 5:17).  We should seek His will:  “Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is”  (Eph 5:17).  We should know Him intimately by knowing His word because He is the Word:  “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God………And the Word became flesh” (John 1).  We should also spend time with Him and build an intimate relationship: “Be still and know that I am God” (psalm 46:10).  We need to Let Him reveal Himself to us as we wait on Him.  Finally we should praise Him continually:  “I will bless the Lord at all times: his praise shall continually be in my mouth” (psalm 34:1).  These actions will make for a healthy relationship between God and us.

God did not want to make it so hard for us. It’s not a works based scenario. Consider the verse “And his commands are not burdensome, 4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God” (I Jn 5:4).  We are born of God, a new creation.  Through our faith and intimacy with Him, He will continue to conform us and transform our mind to realize who we are in Him - that new creation.

Apostasy

It may be possible that even though God does not fall out of love with us, we may fall out of love with Him.  Was this ever true love?  The rest of this paper will explore that.  The following discusses this.

In Exodus 17 we read about the ancient Israelites’ fall from faith at Rephidim.  We read the following in verse 7:  “And he [Moses] called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the LORD, saying, Is the LORD among us, or not?”  An in-depth reference was by the writer of Hebrews in Hebrews 3.  In verse 8, he writes the following to the Hebrews:  “Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness.”  The “provocation” refers to the loss of faith mentioned earlier in Exodus 17.  They provoked the Lord.  In verses 10-11 the Holy Spirit continues to inspire the writer to pen the following:  “Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.  So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.”  His “rest” is referring to the promised land of Canaan (Num 14:22-23).  Only Joshua and Caleb entered Canaan.  The others were overthrown in the wilderness (vs 16) because they provoked God.  Verse 12 gives us a key commandment:  “Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.”  He called them brethren, which means he was addressing Christian believers.  This shows that we can lose our faith in Christ and thus depart from the living God.  The word “depart” is actually “apostacize”, which means a willful decision to refuse God’s plan of salvation and replace it with something else such as works, self-worship, or idol worship.  Hebrews 4:1-2 tells us, “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.”  We need to hold steadfast in our faith in the simple gospel message of Christ, or we may fall short of the promise as the corrupt generation of Israelites did.  I John 5:4-5 tells us “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.  Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?”  The word “believeth” literally means “keeps on believing” in the Greek context.  He is telling these believers, often referred to as “beloved” or “my little children”, to continue to exercise this faith rather then relying on some past experience to assure eternal security.  Verse 13 makes it even more clear:  “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life.”  Again the word “believe” literally means “keeps on believing”.  Matthew 10:22 tells us, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved”.  Those who hold steadfast to their faith may know they have eternal life.  This possibility of turning away from our faith in Christ, as opposed to sinning our way out, is also described in the below passages:

II Peter 2:20-22  “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.  For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again.”

2Pet 1:9 But he that lacketh these things [Fruits of the Spirit] is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

1Cor 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Clearly if someone has once escaped the world through the knowledge of Christ and then fallen away, they have turned to apostasy.  Clearly if a person was purged of their sin and forgotten this, they have turned to apostasy.  Clearly, if God warns us [believers] that he chastens us so we aren’t condemned, there is a possibility that someone who was once a believer could be condemned. This would also entail blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which we know is an unpardonable sin (Lk 12:10).

How Can I Be Unsealed Or Taken Out Of The Hand Of God If I Am Elected And Drawn To The Son?

Eph 1:13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

The above scripture shows us that once we are saved, we are saved until the day of redemption with the deposit of the Holy Spirit.  Now I’ll tread in more confusing territory.  In terms of election, we know that no man comes to the Son unless he is drawn by the father (Jn 6:44).  We know that God chooses us before we choose Him (Jn 15:16).  I don’t mean this in a strict Calvinistic sense.  We are not forced by God by design, but instead are drawn by God due to His foreknowledge of our free will to choose Him (Rom 8:29, 1 Pet 1:2).  Nevertheless, there is an election that occurs.  Only those who are saved are those who are elect.  The bottom line is, at the end of your life, if you are not saved, you are not saved.  No matter what happens in between.  Were you not saved to begin with because God really did not elect you?  Were you saved and deposited with the Holy Spirit and then lost it?  How can someone who is a “new creation” turn to apostasy?  It all comes down to the same thing.  God foreknows everything and would probably only draw those and seal those who would endure to the end.  Therefore, in a sense, we could say that someone who falls into apostasy really never was saved, because the Elect (those saved in the end) are drawn by the Father, sealed with the Holy Spirit until the Day of redemption, and created anew.  Jesus said, “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved” (Mat 24:13).  Consider a faithful Christian who loved the Lord, diligently sought Him, and bore much fruit one day turned from the Lord due to some tragedy?  Did they have the Holy Spirit and lose it?  Did they pray all those years to the air? Did their fruit come from their own effort since the Holy Spirit could not have been in them?  These are questions that scripture really does not answer.  It’s all in a realm that we will not know in this life.  Can God regenerate someone and then unregenerate them when they fall away?  Probably – He’s God.  Could He take the Holy Spirit away from someone who has it but falls away?  Probably – He’s God.  Why would He waste His time, though, if He foreknows their falling away?  Who knows?  Would these people have been draw by God or drawn by themselves into a false temporary salvation?  Who knows?  The bottom line is, we must endure to the end!!

Important Conclusion

From the above arguments and scriptures, I think it is safe to make the following conclusion.  If a person has what I call a “Faith in / Faith out” situation where they will at some point turn to apostasy, they had faith and lost it, but on the day of redemption, will not have salvation.  Were they truly regenerated and filled with the Holy Ghost?  This is the tough question!! Could someone who is regenerated, by their free will, fall away.  It seems possible, since all other facets of prayer require our cooperation with God.  The apostle Paul teaches a mysterious concept which incorporates the Indicative and the Imperative moods.  He’ll make a statement of who we are or what we have in Christ.  Then in the same or nearby context he will command us to do or be the same thing.  The definitions are as follows:

Indicative - A simple statement of fact

-        Not just a possibility, but rather a reality

-        At one time proclaimed and posited as the fruit of the redemptive work of God

-        Tied to the new humanity, or renewal of the heart

-        A matter of faith:  Receiving

-        Represents the “already” and the “not yet”; The “actual” and the “potential”

Imperative - Corresponds to the English imperative

-        Does not precede the indicative, but rather rests on the indicative

-        Follows the indicative by way of conclusion (with “thus”, “therefore”, etc.)

-        Grounded on the reality that has been given with the indicative and cannot occur without it

-        Is not in the power of man himself

-        A matter of faith:  Acting

Here are a few examples.  The indicative statements are underlined while the imperatives are bold:

Rom 6:2  How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?…4 we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life…6 our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin… 12  Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body

Gal 5:24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ …6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus...10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works… 4:1 I therefore…beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called

Rom 8. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you ... 12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh

1 Cor 6:9 (RSV) the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? … neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified …20 you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

2 Tim 1:7 (KJV) For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord

Gal 4.31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman. 1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

Eph 4.23 that you be {BE BEING} renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth .

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God…. 1 Cor 2:16 But we have the mind of Christ.

Get the point?  It seems as though we can have an identity in Christ, but at the same time be commanded to do our part in actualizing it or finalizing it.  So even though our “new self” has been created in true righteousness and holiness, we are commanded to put on the new self.  That means there is a possibility that we never put on the new self.  Otherwise it would never be commanded.  We also see that Christ “set” us free.  Nevertheless, we are commanded to keep standing firm and not be put in bondage again.  “Again” is a key Word.  These people were in bondage to sin before they were saved, yet Paul is telling them to not let it happen “Again”.  Please don’t think I’m saying it takes works to be saved.  I am merely saying that if we truly fall from faith (not every time we sin), the imperative portion absolutely ceases.  Without this part, it seems as though the whole system breaks down.  Both need to be in existence.  God does (or rather did) His part for our salvation.  We then receive that honor and glory and one point in time by faith and are totally justified at that point in time.  We are also regenerated and filled with the Spirit.  BUT, we also actively engage in an indicative/imperative system.  We should NATURALLY and UNCONSCIOUSLY bear the fruit to keep the imperatives operative (at least at a minimal level).  Even babes in Christ, or carnal Christians, have some minimal level of the imperatives cooperating with God.  This nearly fruitless believers will still go to Heaven, but their treasures in Heaven will be limited. “If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire” (1 Cor 3:15). Minimal fruit does not mean apostasy.  The imperatives come natural with faith.  When faith ceases, the imperatives cease to be fulfilled.

2 Corinthians 5:17 tells us that we are a new creation in Christ.  Can a new creation be uncreated?  Ezekiel 36:26-27 prophesies that believers would be filled with the spirit and be caused to walk in God’s statutes.  Then Romans 5:5 tells us that the Holy Spirit shed’s the love of God abroad in our hearts.  How could the Holy Spirit stop shedding that love abroad in our hearts?  I guess it’s possible – He’s God.  God does cause us to walk in His statutes if we are “in the faith” and submitting.  Otherwise, God will be a gentleman and stay out of our business.  We’re not robots.  If we for some odd and rare reason were to totally apostacize, God will allow it.

No one who truly loses faith will seek God again, according to Hebrews 6. If they do seek God again, then they were either backslidden for a while, or they hadn’t truly repented and received Christ as Lord and Savior in the first place.  God will make sure His elect are saved on the day of redemption.  He will complete the work He began.  Otherwise He would be a failure in not completing a work He started.  He will guide them to the “good” for those who are called according to His purpose.  We are His workmanship and He will make sure the “good” work is complete.  If someone is going to be saved from wrath on the day of judgment, God knows who they are.  He knows they will come back if they backslide; He’s omniscient!  He knows the future!  If one of these people turns away from God, they will come back from their backslidden state.  They will not fall into true apostasy.  It may take a while, but God will make sure it happens before they die, because He will fulfill the self-fulfilling prophecy of their salvation that he foreknew.  This explains the following verses.

Phil 1:6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him…..who have been called according to his purpose.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Don’t Fear Every Time You Stumble

Don’t fear every time you stumble because God loves you.  A faithful father would not kick you when you’re down.  Instead he would lift you up and let you try again.  Just ask Him for forgiveness and repent.  The Word says that:

1 Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Those who are born again know it.  The Holy Spirit bears witness in our spirits.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

And when someone tries to tell you need re-saved if you sinned, tell him or her this:

Rom 8:33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen?

Because we have an advocate with the father:

I Jn 2:1 My little children, these things I write unto you, that ye sin not.  And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous..

Rom 8:34 Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Actually, the Bible says if you lose your salvation (If this could occur), you can’t get it back per the following verse, so anyone who thinks they lose their salvation with every sin would be going to Hell after their first sin.

HEB 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

In addition, the Bible says, “He that believeth on him is not condemned” (Jn 3:18).  So basically, if we love God and have saving faith, we cannot be condemned.  It is a ”faith which worketh by love.” (Gal 5:6).  So we must never fall into the Trap of “Faith In / Sin Out”.  This is a message of condemnation and is not representative of God’s grace.  “Faith in/Faith out” is more feasible.